Filling My Nest: June 2011

*Long post but worth the read.*

I really can't believe this is my 800th post. What on earth did I have to say 799 times before this one? I was the shy one in my family!

I'm going to do something a little different today. I'm letting my friends write this post. The other day I consulted the most Godly women (and one man) I know about an important issue and they immediately responded. I'm posting the email I sent them, along with their responses (anonymously). I am touched by their caring concern. I agree with most of their viewpoints, but not all of them. Thank you for writing this one, my friends. You are such a gift to me.

"These older women must train the younger women to love their husbands and their children," (Titus 2:4)

"Someone very special in my life is getting married soon. She is a new believer and called me yesterday to ask some questions that I was having a difficult time answering. If you have a second, can you please send me a quick response? Not a big deal, but just whatever comes to your mind. She is having trouble with the whole "wives submit to your husbands" part of the Bible and is concerned (She also wonders why the Bible was written by men instead of women). She needs a better understanding and wants a healthy marriage more than anything. Her model of marriage was not the best, so she is searching. I want God to show off big-time and I'm not exactly sure why He asked me of all people to answer her questions. I told her I was going to do some homework and get back with her. Can you please help? What is your understanding of the word, "submission"? I totally believe it is God's plan for wives to submit to their husbands and for them to be the head of the house, but I just don't know how to explain it well.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart,
Angie"

1). “ I am quite an opinionated and vocal person and have always been so in my marriage. I always give my opinions, I always say what I think should be done...and I always listen to what D. has to say. If I am not in agreement with it, I tell him why I feel that way. But, if we do not come to an agreement...HE makes the decision....and I follow his lead, and we do what he decides. D. knows that i have a need to be heard. And, he gives me a chance to say how I feel. And, he listens to my ideas. There are often times when he says you need to decide this, I don't know enough to make a decision. So, I guess what I am trying to convey is that 'submission' does not mean zipping your lips and never having an opinion or idea again. It means that my thoughts are as important as his...but, when we can't decide...he makes the call. I don't always like it...but, I figure God is smarter than I am. I think it is important to have a voice and to be heard. After all, God made us women smart and intuitive about many things that men just don't get. A wise husband will always listen to his wife before he makes a difficult decision. I hope this is an answer that will be helpful. I do not think that it means I am supposed to be a little mouse and never open my mouth. That would kill me! :-) “

2). “Thank you, A. for the opportunity. I can only offer my insight though. I suggest she dig deep into the Word and let the Holy Spirit (The Helper that God gives all believers) bring her to Understanding. God's marriage and her known model of marriage are nothing alike. Christ is the method model to His Bride. The Marital Covenant starts with men loving their wives like Christ loved the Church. Serving, (even to the death of themselves), Guiding, Protecting, Providing. Assuming all the burdens of the Household. God wants wives to submit to the Authority HE has given men, freeing wives of any of the above concerns, knowing HE has provided (and will provide) wisdom and understanding of what is needed to fill the roll. If the husband does all that he has been commanded in their marriage, her submitting to his prayerfully considered advise, then the Blessings will flow like a two way street, as each lift the other up in prayer and deeds. HIS way is perfect. Marriage needs the husband, the wife, and God. As the Bible says, a three stranded rope is not easily broken. She is really submitting to God, not her husband.”

3). “I have a book I would love to drop off. I have done it in Bible Studies with women on 5 different occasions and my current group of women is suggesting we do it again. It was even life changing for women who had been married for almost 20 years. :) Chapter 6 is titled "A Heart That Submits". In quick summary, though, "the word submission (hupotasso) is primarily a military term meaning to rank oneself under someone else. This heart attitude is lived out by subjection and obedience, by leaving things to the judgment of another person and yielding or deferring to the opinion or authority of someone else." A Woman After God's Own Heart, Elizabeth George, pg. 65. About 16 years ago, when I was in my first Bible study, my teacher said it would be the most freeing thing, to submit to my husband. While I am free to give my opinion, and share concerns, by leaving the decision up to him, it releases me from the burden of responsibility. He is the one who is accountable to God for the decisions he makes that affect me and our family. (Some are good decisions with good consequences and some are poor with hard consequences) I am responsible for my obedience to God by submitting to my husband (unless he is asking me to do something immoral or illegal). It's not always easy!”

4). “Thats a tough one for me, because I always struggled with that. How do you submit with out losing your identity. But as I have grown older, I realized submission was more of a respect for the husband, if they feel your respect then they want to take care of you, watch over you, and protect you. From a non religious stand point it is important for their own well being and significance. I don’t have any biblical backing for you. good luck with this one.”

5). “This is always one of those hard questions! Why did God use those words? I think of it like this....
"Submit" and "love" are like the two sides of a coin. The Bible says "wives submit to your husbands" and "husbands love your wives." We are created as equals and as partners, I believe. That means thinking and praying together, talking and making decisions together with full consideration of the other spouse. Submission and love are meant to create order in the relationship and family.   I think maybe these words are chosen because they represent the hardest part for each to give...submitting so that the husband feels the respect he needs and love so that the wife feels what she needs the most. Perhaps a difference in the design of the sexes, but it seems women crave love most and men crave respect (& see it as her love)......though both the wife and husband need both love and respect, of course. Perhaps for women, respect comes harder than love to give and for men love is the harder thing. (God knows us and knows what we need to hear in his word!) Submission is not at all about being a second class citizen to our husbands, but a special consideration for him that God designed. I think it even gives freedom for the husband to love her more (as God intends), when she is free to respect and submit to him. I hope this helps some....
You are hearing from one who didn't get this either and left "obey" out of our marriage vows...but that was before I learned that the french & Latin (I think) meaning of obey was "to listen attentively to the one who loves you the most". Thinking of it now it that way...maybe I wouldn't have been so afraid!”

6). “I guess I don't take the Bible literally. When the Bible was written it was the culture at that time for women to be submissive. As we know, women were not as respected as they are today. I would suggest that she and her husband come up with an understanding that they both agree on. That's my 2 cents for what is worth.”

7). “I have always thought about this part of the Bible as meaning that we are to have the utmost respect for our husbands. We know that respect is what husbands really require. I also believe that submission goes beyond this though. When you have two people that are tied together through marriage they are one. Becoming one in a marriage can be tricky. When a disagreement about something takes place in a marriage and there seems to be no agreeing on it, I believe, this is where the real submission/respect comes in. We have to be willing to trust our husband to make the right decision for our family. (He may make a mistake but that is part of life). In Ephesians 5: 21-33 it explains submission. Make sure she reads that. In v. 21 you will notice that it says submit to one another. So, it really doesn't just go one way. That's why I like to think of this as more respect than "submission". I think we all just get stuck on that word. Our husband's job is to look after us, take care of us and treat us as Christ does with his church. When worded that way, I think it sounds very positive, not negative at all. I realize when people say we are to submit to our husbands it doesn't seem fair but think of it like this. When you work at a company everyone wants what is best for the company. They want it to do well, make money and reach it's full potential. What happens though, if management has a disagreement about how to achieve this? They all have the company's best interest at heart but someone will ultimately have to make the final decision on how to go about doing this. That is why there is a president, or a CEO or whatever who gets the final say. In marriage, this is the husband. No matter how much we may not like to hear it, that's the way it is. God didn't put this verse in the Bible to upset the women or to make man her slave but to protect her. He is commanded to love her, and if he loves her he is not going to make her do anything that would degrade her or hurt her.”

8). “Another point to make in L and my 41 years of marriage there have been times L. has asked something of me that I definitely did not agree with. I calmly voice my opinion and let him consider my thoughts. Even then there are times he still does not agree with me but recognizing that whatever he is asking me is ethical and definitely not putting my life in danger even though I don't agree I submit to his wishes. It is amazing how sometimes I can think he is so wrong and over a period of time realize how correct he was. L. and I certainly are a LONG way from having it all together but I just want to say how amazed I am at God and how he brought L. and I together for God’s Glory and not our personal glory and yet we still receive rich blessings from being obedient to our heavenly father in spite of our selves. God’s Grace Mercy and Peace is more than abundant in our lives. Hope this helps in some way.”

9). “Gee, I heard this beautifully explained in a sermon several years ago and it was an ah ha sermon !!! I finally got it ...   BUT , I guess I really didn't get it because I can't put it into words for you and can't remember it !!!   It was all basically about a husband loving his wife like Christ loved the church   --   Christ loved the church so much that he would do anything for it ----- as a husband who loves his wife would do anything for her---- and a wife "loving her husband would do anything for the husband as Christ submitted and would do anything for the church ....   It was something like that , except it was so well put, and so easy to see the way it was explained!!!!!   Sorry , I don't have that sermon to pass on ... I'm not good explaining it ....   Ha Ha --- I hope your friend is very happy in her marriage ----- If you get a God -loving man then you are blessed!”

10). “Remember that submission means... Supporting the mission. Someone needs to lead and someone needs to support that leader. If God says that the man is the leader of his family, than he needs his wife to support the mission. Also remember that submitting to someone in the leadership role is called being a united team!! It makes the couple stronger!! It is supporting the head - that's a neck and not the tail!!:-) My take on supporting my husband!!”

11). “It is true a wife should be submissive to her husband. (eph 5:22) It is a sign of respect, and honor to him, which by the way guys love! With that said, if you read on, eph 5:25) a man is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Which means he would give his life for her. He would move heaven and earth for her. Many women struggle with this concept of being submissive. Submissive does not mean we have to be a door mat he must treat you with honor and respect too. God made Eve from Adams rib so we could walk side by side not from his foot to be walked on. Marriage is a partnership not a dictatorship. Hope this helps, love you!”

12). “I really have no input. If you hear something worth passing along, please let me know, now I am curious myself.”

13). “Let's see about our submission versus control conversation.
What I remember:
1 Her fear of control may stem from her father and her relationship more
than her current with her boyfriend.
2. When men love their wives as God loves the church, there is a
protection that the woman has in submitting under the umbrella of his
authority.
3. Sometimes the control thing attracts guys who like to dominate who
aren't trying to be Christians. They love to flaunt it in the woman's face
that they're supposed to be in charge, but they are not loving well.’

14). We had that scripture in our tuesday morning study. Greek women lived a very isolated life, not allowed speak in public, segregated from men in worship. Think it means to submit to God, honor Him, and your spouse.

15). “The bottom line is this -

The “we” factor vs the “me” factor.
This is a TRUE union by God’s design by HIS covenant oath. (Gen 2:21-25) What the world has to offer is a contract and a promise. The oath is the spoken word that we have a responsibility to take very seriously.

I believe God created marriage partly because He knew we couldn’t possibly keep giving to ALL people the way He does so he gives us just one special person to lavish our love on in complete oneness. It’s not hard to do if we come from a place of understanding that just as you continue to respond to your own hunger and feed your body, you think the same way about your spouse. Not holding back any nourishment that could promote the health of your ONE self. If your spouse truly is yours by God, then you cannot ever think of that person as separate from you. Every thought, every action, every decision must be in complete consideration of your spouse as part of yourself. You have the great privilege of caring for another human being in a way that glorifies God and his design for marriage. Leave and cleave. Become one in ALL that you do.

When you fight or argue, it is like an injury or illness to your body. Would you simply get mad at your body and say, “I’m not to blame here! I’m not changing. This is your problem!” Of course not! You will do whatever it takes to heal fully and completely. You would take the time and make it a priority to find out what is wrong with “your body” and then dedicate whatever means necessary to be fully restored to health. I believe THAT is how marriage should be. If there are repeated wounds without proper healing, “your body” won’t survive. Nourish and feed your body for optimum health and when the struggles come, “your body” will be in the best possible shape to handle those challenges. The woman is the heart and the man is the head. I believe God created the “head” (man) to lead and make the decisions and the “heart” (woman) to be the life-center of the home. The head is not as effective as the heart and the heart is not as effective as the head. Both are equally important to the “we” and equally dependent upon each other for survival. Be what God created you to be and honor God ABOVE your spouse. He knows what He is doing! Continue to give as Christ gives to all...endlessly. “More need, more feed.” You know how to take care of yourself and your individual body; you don’t even have to think about it most of the time. It comes naturally. Now it’s time to make your life with your spouse inseparable in thought and action so that you can nourish each other...in sickness and in health, til death do you part.”

16). "in a nutshell - i love to look at Adam and Eve before the fall and see this beautiful communion with God that they both enjoyed and the ulitmate picture of a true bride groom relationship being so unique and special and equal because of the two unique places for a man and woman. There could and should be such a potential for equal strength on both parts and how like lots of things after the "fall" have gotten distorted and exagerated - better to keep looking at how Christ loves the church and how He came as one that serves - that is a direct picture of what the Man is to the wife and the wife's picture is us to Christ - It is so mutual and full but ironically it starts with Christ, there fore you could argue that serving and love starts with the husband - Dont think ive ever said that part before so dont quote me yet...:) but really there are so many places Christ gives us a better picture of the marriage relationship so it's best not to get too caught up in that one verse...
I am not being very practical with my answer - and ultimately this takes years of gaining respect and honor for each other so not something you just do after your wedding day but certainly something that is possible and something we are all longing for, and especially I think God is longing to show us....I'm sure K. might say that early on, we agreed that the buck might stop with him but there was always an effort to work through things together, and as the years went by there is truly a partnership where he is longing for my input and visa versa because of the mutual respect for each other's opinions. - There were occasions where I actually might get lazy and force him to make some big decisions - he didn't let me get away with that and always forced me to engage so that he wasn't left to out to dry if things failed - visa versa - he always says now that he is glad i was so demanding in certain areas and "strongly" encouraged him to engage with the kids at night and on the weekends - He always said I made him give them their baths at night - Doesn't regret it now....He has a great relationship with each of them...:)"

17).  "I don't blame you for calling in the troops. It is a very tough concept and so anti-society. Shortly after I received this I was in the car listening to Christian radio, and they were discussing this. They mentioned submitting as long as it wasn't contrary to God's
Word. It's a response more than a role. Sometimes our attitudes and the way we say things are very negative and high and mighty. Submitting is to help our husbands to be the men God wants them to be. Hope this helps; it challenges me."

If you want to hear some great messages on this subject by Beth Moore, you download them here.

Thank you so much for helping me be a Titus 2:4 kind of woman!

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